22.28
Comments:
If parking will be used for employees, customers, and tenants of apartments. When people come home from work at 5pm IT WILL BE PEAK TIME FOR PARKING PRESSURE. Board notes it is not a design issue, cuts off question. Apartments get no assigned parking??? No answer / not a design question.
I work in retail! No one will want to walk from parking garage to the shops in front – it is opposite ends of the development. Why is the parking garage so far from the small retailers?
I applaud the increase in density and walkability. How long is the lease? Sixty years.
I challenge the DRB to think with the 60 year mindset and environmental carbon reductions.
I predict less parking will be needed in future. Multi-generational facility – how are you planning for kids to play? Sustainability needs to be via integrated design. Process is ignoring heart of design issues: peat. Peat is being studied, and 2 meetings with rgo technical experts held. Bottom line is they cannot disturb the peat. They cannot disturb the water flow to the peat. Must build above the peat.
Parking is determined a minimum level by code. Some people want more parking, others want less. There is a tension around parking. It is costly to build, but we assess the impacts.
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22.22
Audience Comments:
Does the plan adequately address parking for shoppers, employees, and housing. Code dictates this.
Are apartments looking down at the parking lot? Yes.

Seattle Design Review Board Greenwood
Please make apartments livable, not just boxes.
Please put a glass covered area for the short term parking.
Thank you for the improvements of design – the 4 quadrants and multiple entries are great. I don’t like the 2 story option for the store, I agree with FM. Customers don’t go to 2nd story, even in NYC. Site plan maximizes housing on site. I emphasize these points:
Stormwater planning
Garage design
Current vacancies already on 85th – that retail will be hard to fill.
What about bicycles? People may / should come by bike. Does this design plan for bike access in a smart way and bike parking?
There are great things in this design. East-west: east side stairs – needs ramp (raised by our site in early discussions). North-south needs a strong pedestrian space also. Well defined for pedestrians.
Sinking the store is a brilliant idea and an extraordinary idea you wouldn’t find elsewhere. I oppose the 2 story store option it is a bad idea.
I shop in the area today – leaving 87th closed is a bad idea. Too much traffic is forced onto 1st ave.
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22.14
Public Comment continues:
“Stoops” are for apartments, not townhomes – not 2 story townhomes. I like multi-story townhome units better. It is a more “homey” look.
How will smaller retailers on 85th get their deliveries / service entires? There is no parking on 85th. Developer seems confused / can’t answer. Deliveries would need to be made within the site.
The road through the middle of the development (north / south) – is that how cars enter from 85th? Yes. Commenter notes there will be a lot of cars, busy streets. They should add another entrance on 87th.
I live nearby – I can see greenwood market from my house. I am concerned about 86th being used more intensively. Single lane for cars, tough already to walk… Who will plan to improve sidewalks on 85th? There is gravel in some places between 3rd ave and 8th ave. You want people to walk on that gravel? There are no sidewalks on 86th and it is a very narrow street. It is a single lane street – 2 cars can’t pass today. Don’t turn my street into a thoroughfare!!! I agree 1st avenue will be very crowded. It’s a little 2 lane street today with no sidewalks. Traffic troubles are coming. Put entrances on 87th. I like the open bog area today – I’m happy they are building a park there. Parking garage will hurt feel of park – no sidewalks on 87th either between 1st and greenwood.
Board should watch design of garage carefully. I was in architecture school – you shouldn’t rely on landscape to make building look nice. Garage needs to look nice without the landscaping added. I question the use of green screens to mitigate design flaws. You should add solar panels to roof. Crossroads should be the gym, not the leasing center. Put the leasing center in the retail spaces.
Are stoplights proposed at 85th and 2nd? How does a pedestrian go from the big parking garage, how do I get into the FM store? Either elevator next to loading dock or other choice. I don’t like the parking garage entry.
Is the project LEED certified; LEED silver, what level of LEED? Go extra mile to get to silver or gold.
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22.01
Kate comments continue:
This is the heart of our urban village – we can do better than 1 story retail on 85th. Essential planning issues:
Bog is a big risk; water movement through bog. Do something that doesn’t let them get away from having to raise up building when peat / water issues discovered. Needs to happen in early guidance. If housing is not built – it will be an ugly, bare lid rooftop – huge risk.
How can we understand engineering of bog? You blocked comments at last meeting. I want to have public meeting on bog. Design is better, what about stormwater? Could drainage be exposed like “straight edge alternatives” where broadview / C street is exposed and gorgeous, lush, green. A corridor could be more than a pathway.
3rd is already a very busy street – trucks would come in on this street in plan. 87th north of site is same width as 3rd. Why is 87th a “neighborhood” street? 3rd street may be blocked by truck traffic. Please move the entrance to 87th.
Where are there ramps? Which entrances don’t require stairs? All stairs have a ramp or elevator, except…. not the north entrance on 87th / “thicket”. West portal has a ramp. I want more wheelchair ADA / stroller access!!!
All parking is shared between stores and apartments all the time. The Fred Meyer parking does not close. I see the peat bog as a major design issue.
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21.53
Public Comment Begins – 7:42pm – If time elapses, Tom / DPD planner can take comments.
I live at 87th and 1st. I am relieved to see the thicket. Glad it won’t be higher to block light. Open area – could it be used for a farmer’s market on 1st at the plaza? Could a farmer’s market be held at the plaza, i’d like to see that. I don’t believe FM truly offers local markets – hence the farmer’s market need. We are the largest offering of organic items in portland – we plan to add to greenwood. Commenter disputes this response from fm.
Commenter states planning is very important – should be done before design. I’m a planner and designer. Here is how I see it from a macro level: I have the bog map (appears to be Kate Martin, Greenwood Community Council) – as a planner, last thing anyone would ever do is put a building on the bog. Showing map of peat on site up to 8 foot on site. At safeway on 87th and greenwood – it looks like it isn’t in the bog. The water moves to the greenwood bowl from every direction. It’s a huge risk to show us only projects with the store underground. It’s incredibly unlikely the building could go down to the planned levels. You can’t pump groundwater in this area. “Analyze first and design later.”
Design sells the consumers short – if you can’t sell on 2 levels – you need to learn merchandising. “Jack that thing up!” Our green street has been relegated to a parking garage entry. We want to acquire the nearby land for a pocket park to teach how a bog functions. You are using it as a retention pond. It’s not a retention pond! We are designing to make it a pocket park.
Please put townhomes on the edge at 87th so it is a neighborhood, not just a parking garage near the planned park.
Accessibility: I’m 51 years old and won’t walk forever. My family has disabilities. This plan is an ASSAULT on accessibility. No way to get up 40 stairs!!! Streets should be all at grade and accessible so that people can grow old. A two story store would solve much of this.
Used bookstores, coffee shops, etc. should be intended for the retail areas. Housing is “dead dead dead”.
Sidewalks, curb ramps – sidewalks should be raised like U-Village and cars need to use a sidewalk as a speed bump. Why should pedestrians step down?
We should be creating a connection to urban village of crown village.
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21.42
Board Questions continue:
What is access from 87th?
Why did you use “parcel 3″?
We have lease to 2011 with a 10 year option. Couldn’t come to agreement on land value

Fred Meyer Design Review Board Questions

Design Review Board - Fred Meyer
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21.38
How wide is space between buildings on 85th? – It is 20 feet. Garden center is near residences, and then near Piper Commons steps.
Sidewalks – Slides were different than design book. Developer apologizes for glitches in packet – slides are accurate.
Do townhomes continue to face 87th? Developer states they believe residents did not want trees removed?
Could townhomes face 87th? Developer not pursuing – not feasible for security and management of apartments. Anything possible however.
Is the only bridge the 1 proposed between 2 apartment buildings? Would other buildings be separated; would they have elevators? Yes: just one bridge – other 2 story buildings have no elevators. Note that elevators go down into store also – seeking to limit them.
Security – would any parts of site be open 24/7? What are planned operation hours?
Developer – We’re not sure; we know it needs to be controlled – to be determined…. it will NOT be open 24/7.
What is the vehicle access from 85th? Yes, FM customers would use this access from 85th to enter the garage for FM store.The east – west movement is encouraged for pedestrians only – not vehicles.
Can you go through options, and explain which parking is for residential and which parking is for retail customers (note PhinneyRidge.org has previously raised this issue with the developer!) – Developer: – Reviews different options and how parking would differ a,b,c – we note they only plan to pursue the preferred option as emphasize at all discussions.
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21.28
7:19 – More over-detailed analysis of sidewalks. Joke on shrubs over-growing sidewalk.
50 minutes elapsed – questions and comments begin now. Board questions:
DESIGN BOARD RESPONSE:
Board expressing thanks, noting number of changes.
What happened to access from the south or west? We asked for this at last meeting, why were no changes made?
Developer: Stairs and elavators took room; store needs storage room for stocking and prep.
Board: Noting they considered more access, but declined to provide.
Would there be retail at Southwest corner? – Yes.
Same depth of retail was used in all options shown. Depth of retail was 30 feet from store; 45 feet on 85th.
Would 3rd avenue access – would bridge over top be an essential or optional part of housing plan? – Helps on feasibility, portal type experience, eyes on street / space. Housing SW corner is 3 stories of housing above the retail. Allows the housing to be elavator accessible. Three stories is not reasonable for a “walk up” apartments. It’s an “L” shaped building and the bridge is the only break.
In middle of site at 4 corners, would you…. – Leasing is 365 days per year, it is a commercial enterprise. Workout rooms, kitchens, would be at that location similar to apartment complexes. Needs to be shut down when the store is closed (likely for safety).
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21.19
7:09 – Could be “urban hardware” and lighting that could change during year.
3rd avenue northwest – near single family homes – driver for design. 86th gives “geometry” for design by mapping across site for “east west connection”.
“West Portal’: “West facing is “great”…” Tactal way to catch sun. Clearly this guy is the designer of the group who does the “artsy stuff”. 3rd avenue includes stoops and yards to abutt the residential use. welcoming stair and “bridge-like” element to link residential buildings. This would be a public accessible place, but not late at night. Comparison to Harbor Steps in downtown Seattle.
7:12 – On 87th is the North edge. Designer calls it the “thicket” – feel free to suggest a different one… Coniferous trees will remain and set character. Trees wil be featured on abutted parking structure. Parking structure would have plants along wall too. “green factor provisions”. Actual tree locations shown on diagram.
Middle of site is FOUR CORNERS – a residential “expression” mixing hardscape and landscape.
Sidewalks – developer will show how they can make them better. Existing sidewalks are sure ugly. Showing NW 85th street and a 10 foot sidewalk, with busy street on side of it. Sidewalks increased to 15 feet – retail fronts it and also buffers fred meyer store from 85th. “Walkable profile” – trees every 30 to 40 feet.
1st Ave NW – Very old yellow van shown in photo – accidental? Whose special van is this?
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21.09
7:00pm – Design options that are not preferred being presented – obviously no intent to pursue these options.
7:01pm – Two story isn’t economic – Fred Meyer won’t pursue. Too much cost, too much theft, too much labor costs. Fred Meyer via Tom state they won’t be pursued. Fallback strategy would be to remodel the existing store only into a grocery store. Would demolish greenwood market or put to a non-competing use. Fred Meyer has been in town for 35 years. Crowd asking “is this a threat???”
Next speaker – 7:04pm – Current site is difficult to navigate as pedestrians or on bikes. New rights of way, abilities to connect to the city grid.
Piper Commons: Hypothetical name… This is the plaza at the Fred Meyer entry. Outdoor “sales” area for seasonal variation – ie when Fred Meyer stores place outside plants, fruits, etc. at today’s existing stores. Showing transition from highest point of site down to 86th street connection. Showing view of storefront from 86th – it’s meant to evoke Pike Place Market. This is the terminus of Morrow Lane into plaza entry for fm store.
85th – a busy street – main entry for vehicles coming to store – “gateway” – “Piper Gateway”. This foot traffic will benefit nearby retailers.


Fred Meyer is pulled back 30 feet from existing property line.
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20.59

Fred Meyer Developer Lorig Protest

Attempting to stop the protest of Lorig

Greenwood Fred Meyer - Protest of Developer
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20.56


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20.54
Continued design response:
Trees: Trees will screen 87th street homes similar to existing foilage.
Housing mass on top of garage: all housing moved off of parking garage, moved to south one-third of site, concentrated at 3rd and 85th.
Design board forcing questions to be held until presentation is complete. Questioner closed.
Design perceived as having access and permeability through the site. Continuous retail along 85th to provide visibility to retail. Will tenants really lease this retail property? (presenter laughs)
Front stoops and doorways off the street on 3rd.
Vehicle access:
All vehicle access eliminated on 87th. Alley will be widened and used for trucks, and then will exit on 1st avenue. Autos will enter to garage via 1st ave and other entries.
Departures will include from parking garage on 1st avenue.
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20.48
No rezoning planned. Remain at C1-40. No rezoning requested for surrounding areas.
Summarizing the design main points:
200 apartments; 160k Fred Meyer store; 680 parking stalls; 25k retail space for other stores per our preview story on Friday.
Emphasizes a 16 foot slope on property. Let’s design put Fred Meyer store to only five foot above grade at 85th, which is lowest point.
All of the housing is on the roof of Fred Meyer. Plaza at store entry remains.
Neighborhood influences: Bus route on 85th; 3rd ave is a minor arterial. 1st avenue is a connection to open spaces and a “green street”.
Backbone to design is a new connection from 2nd avenue to 86th.
Prior board comments – how they handled:
Cross-site connections: tying 86th across site and alignent of 2nd avenue on roof of Fred Meyer store allowing pedestrian and vehicle access.
Multiple entry points: site needs to be easily accessible. Four points shown as access for vehicles or pedestrians
Store Entry separation – one entry off plaza and another 250 feet away near parking garage.
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20.43
Design Board Introduction: Things that can block an approved design: Illegal, Without authority in the design guidelines
Design board is private volunteers – wishes them “luck”. Big room – easily 50-75 attendees. Library all chairs are full.
Tom Gibbons – Real Estate director for Fred Meyer gives a brief intro and introducing other speakers. His points:
• Listing donations to community organizations including Phinney Neighborhood Association
• Health benefits are extended to part time employees.
• Estimate creating 200 new jobs and doubling the employees currently in the store.
• Estimated sales tax revenue increase of $1.4M.
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20.28
A group of protesters is speaking impromptu at the meeting as they are protesting what they believe to be discrimination against a African-American receptionist (”Patricia”) at the developer’s business (Lorig) from never being promoted and then replaced. The developer – Bruce Lorig – was shocked at the impromptu protest at the meeting and asked to discuss the issue with the former employee.
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16.32
First test update.
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We are planning to provide live updates of the September 28th Fred Meyer design meeting from Ballard High School Library.
6:34: The board members introduce themselves and promise up to 3 hours to get through public comments. Reminder: Design issues only, no environmental issues. The board has no say over those.
6:35: Tom Gibbons, Fred Meyer’s Real Estate Director, is relating the history of the plan for Greenwood.
Gibbons talking about Fred Meyer’s community involvement and local employees. Promises 200 new jobs.
6:40: Architects are up now. Site won’t be rezoned. It’s staying C1-40, which has a 40ft height max. 200 apartments on the roof of the new Fred Meyer, 680 parking spaces. Pedestrian access over the roof. Now showing off pedestrian and vehicle access points.
6:48: The plan has been revised to set the garage back to preserve trees that were a concern at previous meeting. Garage is now 2 stories, with parking on roof. Residential that was on top of the garage has been moved
6:50: Vehicle access has been moved off of 87th. Truck access will be through widened alley on 1st Ave.
6:52: Three options. Fred Meyer wants Option A. Larger apartments, one-story retail facing 85th, ground-level residential parking with plaza access. Two-story garage with parking on lid. Kiosks and standalone retail near entrance.
6:55: Option B.
7:27: 3G reception is working in the room again. The architects are answering questions from the board about increasing the number of access points to the Fred Meyer store. It couldn’t be done because the site had to be lowered, and stairs or elevators would be required.
Board seems to want even more retail.
Question about the garden center: it’s on the ground level and isn’t an access point to the store.
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